God Is Imaginary!

These comments have been transferred from my other blog, “Was That My Outside Voice?”

For more information, please click on “About This Blog”.

johnnypeepers, on March 25th, 2008 at 10:43 pm Said:
I have been reading up on Egyptian solar-worship and the mythic symbolism in The Bible (i.e., Horus and Jesus). It is truly an eye-opening adventure. I know why this information is suppressed, it could be very dangerous to our handlers.

By dividing humans between the camps of ardent believers, luke-warmers, agnostics, atheists, and couldn’t give a fucks, we are easier to manipulate. But, if the info came out that there was no reason to buy into the myth at all because it was all a lie, cats would unite and the social order and its institutions would be thrown down.

Anita, on March 26th, 2008 at 9:32 am Said:
Yup! The information is out there. All people have to do is read and use their brains. Unfortunately, believing in the non-existent is easier for the manipulated masses. And, of course, the folks in power do everything they can to keep the deluded in their place.

audrey, on April 30th, 2008 at 9:00 am Said:
While I salute you for your writings on the Fritzl case, I have to disagree with you on this one. One of your quotes up there read:

“Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate.”

You see, no matter how many times I try to “run away” from God, he always finds me back. A local Bishop once said that “We don’t look for him, but he looks for us.” Faith to me cannot be “investigated”. The part that needs “investigating” is where a Seminarian or a Priest-to-be goes for Theology course in Rome before they are ordained.

Can scientists explain love? Like faith, how can one define/probe what love is?

No offence, I am only expressing my thoughts.
This is coming from a troubled Catholic girl.

Thanks.

Luis Navarro, on May 1st, 2008 at 2:12 pm Said:
Atheists love to say that fear is the cause of religion. Fear of the elements, thunder fx. But why be afraid of thunders, when you never get stroke by one? What will a stoneage person do in case of a beginning storm? Walk happily and thinking towards the usual shelter, take a seat, start the fire and make a tea or a soup. Or in another way, if you are not killed by something 99% of the times, why should religion appears as barely fear of that thing? You don´t develope a fear of something which 99% of the time works fine, or which is very easy to avoid. The main attitude towards that thing, the elements, should come from the normal habitual relation to them. Predators are far more dangerous, but we usually defended ourselves and nothing more. If I´m not wrong, the first religion has a snake as a symbol, and these are far less dangerous (and useful) than mammouths fx, which had none or little place in old religions, (if I´m not wrong). Another question is that atheists never focus on asceticism, which is the main point of the modern religions, together with love. If all religion comes from that old fear, where does asceticism and foregivness come from? It doesn´t seem they have much to do with the first. Atheism is an irrational feeling and that´s why there´s atheist solutions for every personality and almost never does make sense. Marx said that only the poor believed in God, well, think two seconds about it, what about the rich? They also believe in the whole trinity, what about catholic scientists of our modern today? They do exist…

Smithy, on May 8th, 2008 at 11:56 pm Said:
I dunno about the god thing either, I mean, apparently Jesus said ‘ye are gods’ and maybe at some point we’ll all discover how to use the dormant part of our brains to really get a growth spurt going on (but hopefully not in order to sit around on clouds with long white beards spying on other life forms!!).
I kind of lean toward some of the wicca idea though, I mean, I can see nature all around me, and it has a real good idea of what works and what doesn’t, and if I’m astute enough, I can pick up its clues and learn from it. As far as what happens after death, people/relatives I knew who died, have visited me in one sense or another, every now and then, so this has given me a kind of ‘proof’, if you like, to believe there’s a continuence. Of some sort. Apart from that, I haven’t got a clue about religion, except that I don’t like it. I’d agree it’s a brainwashing tool, because spirituality is different for everyone, we’re all unique.

louise, on May 9th, 2008 at 3:30 pm Said:
I believe in the God who created the whole universe and every living thing in it, including human beings. There is the spirit realm and the natural realm. In the spirit realm there is both good and evil. Satan lives in the evil realm. Satan was an angel that tried to take over God’s realm and got booted out, or expelled out of heaven. God is in the spirit realm that is the reason why God through the His Holy Spirit sent Jesus who is both God and man into the world to save the world from going to hell, Jesus was the last sacrifice. Adam and Eve made a deadly mistake when they believed Satan and got deceived by Satan. This caused them their freedom that they had in paradise on this earth and they became spiritually dead. This is the reason why we are all born with a sin nature, and sin is the reason why Adam and Eve got booted out of paradise and through them sin entered into this world. So God sent Jesus to redeem us back to Him. So all those who call out on the name of the Lord, “Jesus”, and accept Him as Lord of their lives shall be saved and redeemed back to God. What is so complicated about that? Has anyone ever been fired from a job or expelled from a country? Well, that is what happened to Satan too who’s name was Lucifer when he was in heaven. He was one of the arc angles along with Michael the arc angel who is still in heaven who fights in the evil realm along with other angels from God to help the Christians while we are still on this earth. If it wasn’t for our prayers this earth would have already been obliterated by evil people on this earth. Jesus is coming again soon for His people to take them out of the way before the tribulation hits. Remember, God doesn’t send anyone to hell, people send themselves to hell by not accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. We do have a choice because God gave us a free will. There is a small area in Asia where people have not yet heard about Jesus. Once those people hear about Jesus and are given a chance to accept Him, then the rapture of Jesus’ church will occur and the tribulation will began. Because of God’s love, He will still give people who are going through the tribulation a chance to accept Him one last time, and if they do, even though they will be killed by the anti-christ, they will go to heaven too. Those who do not believe in Jesus now will know then that what the Christians are saying is true, because this will come to pass. All those who call on the name of the Lord Jesus, shall be saved. All those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior will be set free from sin. Sin is a tool from Satan to steal, kill, and destroy people’s souls through deceptions. Satan perverts every thing that God created through delusions and false witnesses. Satan is angry because he got booted out of heaven so he is busily trying to take as many as he can with him to hell. Those who belong to Jesus Christ are marked, so all those who do not have this mark are easy pickings for satan to take them down with him to hell. Choose you this day whom you will serve: Jesus or Satan. There is only one true religion, pure Christianity without deceptions according the the Holy Bible. There are other supposedly “christian religions” who are not Christian. They mix other religions with it which is an obomination to God – they will be judged as false. The anti-christ is busy creating new religions to deceive people. Those of you who are being deceived by satan through false religions still have a chance to find out the “TRUTH”. When you find the “truth” it will set you free.

louise, on May 9th, 2008 at 4:25 pm Said:
SMITHY, this is what Jesus said: verse 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’? Notice in the letter gods the g is in a lower case. This means that we are like God because of who we are in Jesus Christ. We are not God, but we are like God. Jesus was quoting what God said in the law in the old testament. SMITHY, God is Spirit that is the reason why you can’t see Him. One can only see Him by the Spirit and the things of God can only be discerned by the “Spirit”. One cannot say “Jesus is the Lord of my life” accept by the Spirit. You will find out the “truth” about the only one true God if you desire to know the truth. If you do not desire to know the truth, then you will not find it. It’s as simple as that. To know the truth is to be set free from evil thinking and evil doing and to be set free from the bondages of satan over your life. If you say you do not believe in hell and that there is no “satan” then you are being deceived already by satan, because that is what he wants you to believe. You say that dead relatives sometimes come to visit you, well the truth is they are not your dead relatives, they are familiar spirits who were around them while they were growing up. Your dead relatives have gone to where they chose to go and they cannot come back to see you. There are evil spirits or demons all around us. These are fallen angels who fell with satan. These spirits are also called demons. This is another way that satan deceives people who do not know the truth. If you do not know truth then you will believe a lie. Satan is the father of lies, he cannot tell the truth. And satan will only tell a truth when it is convenient to him to trap people. You are trapped by deception because you do not know the truth. But you still can know the truth. All those who call out on the name of the Lord Jesus shall be saved. I know the truth by the Spirit of God and by written word in the Holy Bible. I found the truth in 1992, even though I was raised in the Baptist church as a child, and I believe in the only begotten Son of God Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and the three are one and I am one in Him. God does not send any one to hell they send themselves to hell. Christians are marked by God and when people die if they are not marked by God satan takes them down with him. Choose you this day whom you will serve, God or satan.

Smithy, on May 9th, 2008 at 5:01 pm Said:
Oh dear.

Louise:
“You say that dead relatives sometimes come to visit you, well the truth is they are not your dead relatives, they are familiar spirits who were around them while they were growing up. Your dead relatives have gone to where they chose to go and they cannot come back to see you.”

How do you know? You’re not me!

The whole god idea grew less than a little slim at the end of April.

Anita, on May 9th, 2008 at 5:18 pm Said:
Louise said: “God is Spirit that is the reason why you can’t see Him.”

Delos B. McKown said: “The invisible and the NON-EXISTENT look very much alike.”

Sorry, Louise. I’m sure you’re a wonderful person. I can tell you definitely mean well. But, sadly, you’ve been brainwashed by superstition and myth. The story of Adam and Eve is a fairytale, and the entire premise of Christianity is based on that fairytale.

It’s baffling to me how otherwise intelligent people can fall for this stuff.

Did you ever notice that Santa Claus and your omniscient God have exactly the same characteristics?…

“He knows when you are sleeping; he knows when you’re awake; he knows when you’ve been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake!”

You see my point?

Anita, on May 9th, 2008 at 5:39 pm Said:
Audrey:

What that quote means is that people who accept things on blind faith are often too lazy to educate themselves.

I urge you to investigate the origins of your religion, and you will soon see that Christianity is not original at all.

As Johnnypeepers pointed out, the parallels between the Egyptian god Horus and the New Testament’s Jesus will probably surprise you.

chris dooks, on May 13th, 2008 at 3:52 am Said:
I just wanted to say that the “God is Imaginary” quotes are some of the best I’ve ever read. Soundbites are sometimes easy to crit, but there’s just some commonsense things on here. For me, being an athiest was choiceless. It takes bravery, acceptance and I wish there was a god. I have to agree with this quote : “All in all, I can’t say I believe in god. If, in fact, I ever find out that he does indeed exist, I think I’ll stay away from him, because if he’s responsible for half the things he gets credit for, he’s got to be one mean son of a bitch.” –Peter Gether

Anita, on May 13th, 2008 at 6:47 am Said:
Hi Chris,

Thanks for your comment. Yes, the quotes are good ones, and I’m always on the lookout for sound bites of rationality. I also agree that it takes courage to admit all gods are fictitious. As Peter Gether points out, if the “God” so many worship and call “loving” was proved to actually exist, I’d want nothing to do with him—as he’s obviously a narcissistic sadist.

Sue, on May 25th, 2008 at 5:01 pm Said:
Great quotes. I guess I’ve always wanted to believe in this God that so many of my friends do but as a sane and rational person well, I just can’t. That said I do believe in something bigger that myself and I feel a connection to the universe but that may simply be….we are all made of the same stuff. I do tend to lean toward the idea of Mother Earth or Gaia. But really, I think the best way to find answers is through research, yup, I mean science. And maybe in the end there will be some kind of God, or higher power or something bigger than ourselves but I don’t believe for a minute that a book written a couple of thousand of years ago by superstitious, sexist, narrow minded and power yearning men has a thread of reality in it.

I particularily loved this quote…

“My young son asked me what happens after we die. I told him we get buried under a bunch of dirt and worms eat our bodies. I guess I should have told him the truth that most of us go to Hell and burn eternally but I didn’t want to upset him.” –Jack Handey

See you in hell Anita!

Sue

Anita, on May 25th, 2008 at 7:28 pm Said: Edit Comment
Hey Sue,
Hell would be so lucky to have us both! Tee hee.

Melisa, on May 29th, 2008 at 11:54 pm Said:
Sue & Anita,

Watch Pastor Billy Crone on You Tube the final countdown and you’ll see just how really the Bible is!

Anita, on May 30th, 2008 at 12:15 am Said:
Hey, Melisa:

That Billy Crone guy is really annoying! LOL! Thanks for sharing. I had a good chuckle. But, truly, I couldn’t take his shouting. I got as far as the first 4 minutes, 28 seconds of his video “1 of 20 – The Final Countdown…”

What’s with this guy? Is he a frustrated stand-up comic or something?

Joko, on June 7th, 2008 at 12:39 am Said:
Excuse my English, English is my third language. Thanks for your information. Great blog. I do not agree with your comment “Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate.” I could be consider a christian, even though I go to church about once every two year or so. I was born a methodist. At an early age I was confuse about the Methodist church and the Catholic doctrine I learned at school. After serious concentration I decided to find the right way to worship God, if there is a God. I will not go into that now, however, the faith that I developed about God was not based on being lazy, It was not handed down to me. I spend countless hours in the Library in Ghana, trying to define the God, religion, christianity and other religions. Although my quest is still going on, I have discovered more evidence of a supreme being than the contrary. You might say I’m in the minority, however in my quest to know the truth, I found many people on the way that was not lazy but developing faith through knowledge.

Anita, on June 7th, 2008 at 8:22 am Said:
Welcome to my blog, Joko. And thank you for your comments. All points of view are encouraged and appreciated. (Your English is great, by the way.)

IAMABELIEVER, on June 11th, 2008 at 11:32 am Said:
ANY AND EVERY BODY THAT DOESN’T BELIEVE IN GOD BETTER WATCH OUT FOR HIS WRATH

johnnypeepers, on June 11th, 2008 at 2:00 pm Said:
IAMABELIEVER:

So this kind, just, merciful GOD has a mean violent streak eh? What if you chose the wrong cultist dogma organization to worship this murderous bastard? GOD slaughtered over a million in the Old Testament mythical books. I would watch the sky for raining fire. You might be the one getting burned.

swandiver, on June 12th, 2008 at 3:48 pm Said:
two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer? no wonder the author is unknown.. i know for a fact whom ever posteded that has never prayed to the living God… becareful what you say about a thousand people in prayer doing nothing.. If it were not for those whom spend hours in prayer with no one ever knowing… this country would be much worse off than it is today.. and what about you… if you dieing.. i would be sure not to pray for you, or your salvation..

swandiver, on June 12th, 2008 at 4:04 pm Said:
And Sue.. you will go to hell… i have seen satin.. looked at him strait on, yep been to the throws of hell.. have you heard the screaming of those locked up in Hell? And Satin, he has stench that is like that of a never ending mass Grave, yet looks as good as Tom Cruize could talk just like Tom too.. you would never know the difference because you know not Jesus Christ..i fear for you because one day you will be intombed in hell and all those whom have taken the time to share Gods eternal love with you.. you have rejected so you reject Jesus Christ, therefore leaving you guilty.. and on judgement day Jesus will not be able to stretch his hand out to you.. but you see.. we christains will stand in awe because we wait for that day.. but you.. you will die of fear alone ,on that great day.. may the Lord Jesus change your heart before it is too late….

Anita, on June 12th, 2008 at 4:09 pm Said:
Hey Swandiver,

If you’ve already been to hell… how the heck did you get out? I thought it was supposed to be for eternity!

Wepawee, on June 12th, 2008 at 6:23 pm Said:
What I dont understand about all these so called Athiest is this. “If they dont believe in God then why are they all so afraid of him?” ” If they dont believe in God then why would a copy of the 10 commandments offend them?” ” If they dont believe in God, then why would they be worried about children praying in school.?” ” If they dont believe in God,then why would any form of religion offend them?”
I am only a average person with limited edjucation, but to me it seems very silly to raise such a stink about somthing that you dont believe in .
As a Christian who has seen and experianced many miracles I know that God is real and that he does not force himself on anyone who does not want him.
As a American citizen we do have freedome of religion. This means you dont have to have a religion.
This does not mean that a nonbeliever has the right to try to take away our religouse rights. This country was FOUNDED BY CHRISTIANS!!!!!! DUHHH
Furthermore in my opinion if they dont like this CHRISTIAN COUNTRY ,, Then they should leave!! There are lots and lots of communist countries that would love to have them.
If you dont believe in God dont worry,He believes in you and one day all nations will know that he Isreal.
God bless you all.

Wepawee, on June 12th, 2008 at 8:03 pm Said:
P.S I was reading one of the sayings of Robert Ingersol. He said “When I became convinced that the Universe is natural—that all the ghosts and gods are myth, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell, the dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts, and bards, and manacles became dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave.” –Robert G. Ingersoll

My point, He mentions that he has a soul. So if he doesnt believe in God what the heck does he need a soul for? If there is no God then he would have no soul. Christianity clearly preaches that GOD gave us a soul.
Just thought I would point that out.
Thanks for that chance to say what I think.

Sue, on June 13th, 2008 at 7:02 am Said:
Interesting comments and I seem to have offended someone by stating that I don’t believe in a ‘Christian’ God. I do believe that if there were a God he would be much wiser than to entomb us non-believers in a burning pit. Rather he would open his arms and embrace us.

I would love to believe in your God. I just can’t. But like I said in my statement I do believe in a higher power or something bigger than us all. I don’t think we have the capacity to understand what that is and I don’t believe it’s a thinking entity looking down on us with angels singing it’s praises.

Non of what ‘God Bless you’ said made any sense whatsoever. I’m not from his country which as we know is not the most highly educated country in the world and has a mandate based in murder and mayhem. A Christian country? Need I say more. Actually I should. I do have a lot of friends who are christians and many of other faiths as well. We, in my country believe that being a good and loving person and practicing good morals is what’s important. I respect my friends’ faith and am in awe of them. And I don’t think if there is a god that he/she would care which path you took to find her.

One last point. I don’t know anyone who has killed in the name of atheism.

Wepawee, on June 13th, 2008 at 7:46 pm Said:
You sure had alot of nasty things to say about somthing that doesnt make any sence.
The ten commandments very clearly teaches us to be good and loving people practicing good morals.
Believe me when I say I know that my country has problems ALOT of problems.. We are not all of us bad.Many many of us are good. Some of my dearest friends are Athiest. I dont think they are bad because they dont believe. I dont think you are bad either even though you seemed to enjoy running me down for expressing my opinion and beliefs. I forgive you
God does accept you with open arms, You do have to play by his rules though. You cannot get through a locked door until you use the key to open it . That is just the way that the door operates. I suppose when you create the whole universe you can make your own rules.
My dear if you believe in a Higher power than you already know the answer. There is a reason you are in awe of your friends faith.
Good point about not knowing of anyone who has killed in the name of atheism. I started to think that Hitler was a Athiest . But from History class I know that is not true. (See our edjucation is not a total loss. LOL I learned to do math to:))
One day we will all know the trueth. who is right and who is wrong.
God Bless you and may you keep learning.

Jen, on June 15th, 2008 at 7:07 pm Said:
Wepawee,
In one of your comments you said to Sue “You will go to hell” and then later you tell her that SHE has a lot of “nasty things to say”? Sue’s comments are not nasty or uneducated, unlike others, they are valid and free from prejudice.
I’m not going to comment further about the God thing, because I’m a Buddhist and as one I don’t criticize anyone else’s beliefs. I was raised as a catholic, but have decided to make my own choices as an adult. I consider my self Agnostic rather than Atheist (spell check is a wonderful thing, by the way).
May YOU keep learning!

Jen, on June 15th, 2008 at 7:22 pm Said:
Sue,
I’ve enjoyed reading your comments.
I loved in particular: “I don’t know anyone who has killed in the name of atheism”. That’s one of the reasons for the choice I’ve made, because I don’t know anyone who has killed in the name of Buddhism. I don’t even consider it a religion, but more a philosophy. It works for me anyway…

Sue, on June 16th, 2008 at 8:29 am Said:
I”m sorry Wepawee,

Denigrating your country was a cheap shot. Sometimes we get angry and say things we don’t really mean. But you did make some generalizations about athiests that are simply not true and well, silly. Not wanting religion in schools has nothing to do with fear of God, more it has to do with freedom of religion and respecting others’ beliefs. I think if religion is taught in schools we should learn about all people’s faiths and of course that would include the athiest viewpoint. My provincial parliament is about to start saying a prayer of different faiths before sessions begin. I’d prefer like many that a pledge to your constituents would be better served but at least the multi -prayer idea embraces all peoples not just one. I believe acceptance and tolerance is a better outlook than finger pointing which is what many religions seem to teach. Believe what we believe or else. I do like the the Buddist way though. It’s all about Karma. (or perhaps we could call it Quantum Physics, oops there’s that science again.)

Sue, on June 16th, 2008 at 8:34 am Said:
Hahhahah

And of course I had to go and spell Atheist wrong. Yes, spell check IS a wonderful thing if you use it.

Jen, on June 16th, 2008 at 5:17 pm Said:
Sue,
I really like your comments.
I might have gotten a little carried away picking on Wepawee yesterday, I was pretty annoyed at his/her comments and I posted a bit of a nasty reply, which I don’t like doing. (It’s bad Karma …LOL)
I like that your responses are fair and open-minded. This is why I like coming back here, because of comments like yours.

Joe, on June 16th, 2008 at 10:29 pm Said:
I wanted to rant on the website posted godisimaginary.com but I guess this will have to do. The guy argues if he got people to pray for a cure for cancer, it would never come. If this person spent the same amount of time researching a cure, rather than putting up the website, we might have had one. You know, I just want to also point out that Einstien’s theory of relativity is imaginary and so is the song “Imagine” by John Lennon. Just because religion is flawed, doesn’t mean God is. If you don’t see good and evil, black and white, if all you see is gray in this world, then I can truly imagine you are blind. Here is a little quote from Einstien by the way: “Imagination is more important than knowledge.”

Anita, on June 17th, 2008 at 5:14 am Said:
Joe,

Thank you for your rant, however misguided.

The purpose of the website to which you refer is to show, through rational arguments, that god is imaginary. To say the webmaster may have found a cure for cancer had he not spent time putting up such a website is ludicrous.

I’m not a scientist, so I can’t comment on the merits of the theory of relativity, but the theory does in fact exist, as does John Lennon’s song “Imagine.” Ergo, neither are imaginary.

I don’t understand your point about seeing the world in black and white, rather than shades of grey.

And finally, Einstein’s quote: “Imagination is more important than knowledge” is a lovely quote and does not in any way imply the existence of a god or gods.

Sue, on June 17th, 2008 at 8:32 am Said:
Hey Jen,

Just wanted to thank you for the kind words. I’m sending lots of good Karma your way….(though seems to me you’re making lots on your own)

L, on June 17th, 2008 at 12:55 pm Said:
haha… love ‘em. Might borrow one or two.

This is old and there’s a lot of articles debunking but have you seen, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2111174/Intelligent-people-%27less-likely-to-believe-in-God%27.html?

“Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.” -Isaac Asimov

http://theflowfieldunity.com/2008/01/20/input-out/

Anita, on June 17th, 2008 at 1:04 pm Said:
Thanks for the links, L. Feel free to borrow as many quotes as you like. I’m going to add your Isaac Asimov quote to my list.

That statement is so true.

I never really believed in God. Even as a child, God didn’t make any more sense to me than Santa Claus, whom I stopped believing in when I was four. But it wasn’t until I read the Bible from cover to cover, in my “Literature of the Bible” class in first year university, did I become a full-blown “born-again” Atheist.

Jen, on June 17th, 2008 at 6:41 pm Said:
Hi Anita,
Just like you, ever since I was a child, never really believed in God or the Bible, even though I was raised as a Catholic and went to a Catholic primary school, none of the teachings ever made sense to me, in fact I was convinced that Noah’s ark and all of the other Bible stories were just fairytales and it never even occurred to me, until later in life, than others actually believe they were real!
However, I couldn’t let go of the fear, instilled in me since childhood, that those who don’t believe in God end up in hell.
My first serious boyfriend was an Atheist; I was shocked when he first admitted to me that he didn’t believe in God at all. I remember saying to him that surely he needed to believe in something, to which he responded “Why? I’m a good person, I have never harmed anyone or committed any crimes, I know the difference between right and wrong and I don’t need a God or religion to guide me”. This was a turning point for me, because in that moment I realized that people can be good and decent without needing to believe in God, yet others who go to church every Sunday can be bigger “sinners” than most.
As the years went by, my disillusion with Catholicism and religion in general grew stronger. It had nothing to do with my relationship, but more with opening my eyes to the truth, and the more I learned about religion, the more I realize that it just didn’t agree with me.
However, even though I rebelled against religion, I’ve always been a spiritual person. For years I’ve enjoyed meditating and practicing Yoga for relaxation and that eventually led me to discover Buddhism, which I consider a great source of spirituality and it is the only practice or tradition which doesn’t involve worshiping in a God or Gods, but is more about the power of humanity and individuals. Not that I’m strict Buddhist or anything, I don’t shave my head or wear an orange robe, I drink wine and eat meat, but that’s the beauty of Buddhism, you’re free to pick and choose what aspects suit you and you’re also expected to question what ever you want, we don’t believe in blind faith. It also teaches respect for other’s beliefs and that has taught me to be a little bit more at peace with believers and non-believers alike.
Still, I can’t help resent anyone trying to force their religion onto others, as if they have the answer to it all and if you don’t agree with their beliefs “God will punish you” or “You’ll go to hell”, what a load of rubbish! I have another quote for you Anita: This is from an INXS song (one of my favorite bands): “Whether is God or the bomb, it’s just the same and is only fear under another name”.

Jen, on June 17th, 2008 at 6:48 pm Said:
Beg your pardon, the band is actually MAX Q…Michael Hutchence was the singer in both INXS abd MAX Q, and that’s why I got confused. The song is called “Way of the world”. Take a listen, if you haven’t yet, I think you’ll appreciate it.

Jen, on June 17th, 2008 at 8:05 pm Said:
BTW, out of the ones listed above, the following is my favorite quote:

“God says do what you wish, but make the wrong choice and you will be tortured for eternity in hell. That sir, is not free will. It would be akin to a man telling his girlfriend, do what you wish, but if you choose to leave me, I will track you down and blow your brains out. When a man says this we call him a psychopath and cry out for his imprisonment/execution. When god says the same we call him “loving” and build churches in his honor.” –William C. Easttom II

So true…

Jen, on June 17th, 2008 at 9:52 pm Said:
One more comment, Anita – after all you said I could post as many as I wanted…I’m definitely going straight to hell for this I’m looking forward to meeing Michael Hutchence when I get there.
Here are a couple of quotes I stumbled upon, which I liked:

Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion – several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn’t straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother’s path to happiness and heaven.
-Mark Twain

When I was a young boy, my father taught me that to be a good Catholic, I had to confess at church if I ever had impure thoughts about a girl. That very evening I had to rush to confess my sin. And the next night, and the next. After a week, I decided religion wasn’t for me.
-Fidel Castro

Kay, on June 18th, 2008 at 7:17 am Said:
I really think your Fritzl blog is helping alot of people. I really haven’t found better friends than the ones I found in my church. And, I love Jesus more than anything. The Bible is so chock full of good literature, poetry, advice for success in life……this and the next one! Stories about real people who weren’t perfect like we aren’t perfect. With that said…..I sympathize with people who don’t have this dimension in their lives….it’s so beautiful and comforting!

Sue, on June 18th, 2008 at 7:41 am Said:
Wow Kay,

That’s a pretty arrogant and condescending thing to say to someone who doesn’t believe the things you believe. I’m sure you mean well but that attitude really does exemplify what Jen says. ‘as if they have the answer to it all ….’ I’m sure you have made many good friends at church and I’m happy for you but perhaps your life would be richer and more meaningful if you went out into the world and met people from varied backgrounds, cultures and beliefs. Try not to judge, open your eyes and arms to diversity!

You should visit a book store sometime. There are lots of books out there which can help us with our lives. Good literature, poetry and advice for success on many topics written in this century by men AND women.

Anita, on June 18th, 2008 at 8:21 am Said:
Hello Jen,

Thanks for sharing your story; your comments are all fabulous!

I was raised Catholic too—by my maternal grandparents, who became my legal guardians after my entire family was killed in a car accident when I was five. They were extremely intolerant and were always telling me what an awful child I was and how I was going to hell for all my supposed transgressions.

I’ll be sure to check out that MAX Q song.

Anita, on June 18th, 2008 at 8:31 am Said:
Hello Kay,

I’m glad you appreciate my posts on the Fritzl story and I thank you for your comments.

Regarding the Bible: As Sue says, I’m sure you mean well… but have you actually read it from cover to cover?

If so, have you not noticed the violence, cruelty, intolerance, and contradictions? The main character, “God,” is an evil, jealous, blood-thirsty tyrant! I fail to see how this can be described as either “beautiful” or “comforting.”

Anita, on June 18th, 2008 at 8:34 am Said:
Hey Sue,

Great advice you gave Kay. Thanks for all your thoughtful and intelligent comments.

Jen, on June 18th, 2008 at 11:02 pm Said:
I can only speak from my own experience, but for me that moment when I understood that I no longer needed to be scared of going to hell, because there is no such thing, was the most liberating moment of my life!
I can honestly say that I have led a more fulfilling, more relaxed, more considerate, and a happier life in general, since I let go of my fear of God and the guilt and mind-control that went with my Catholic upbringing.
I’ve become more open-minded and accepting of different people and their beliefs, I’m at peace with myself, my ideas and my decisions, I’ve discovered that it’s ok to learn from your mistakes and also I’ve allowed myself to discover cultures and traditions which I truly love and make sense to me.
So, no I don’t feel I’m missing out on anything, instead I’ve gained a great deal.

Jen, on June 18th, 2008 at 11:06 pm Said:
By the way, I have nothing against people who believe in God, or the Bible or any relogion whatsoever, only those who try to force feed their views on to others…

charlie, on June 22nd, 2008 at 6:32 am Said:
Jen and others: With all due respect, If there’s no God and not hell, where do you think a beast like Fritzl would go once he dies? Do you really think his life ends here on this earth? Does that seem fair and logical to you?

Anita, on June 22nd, 2008 at 7:18 am Said:
Charlie,

Like everyone else, when Fritzl dies, he will remain dead. We can only hope he’ll get what’s coming to him from the Austrian judicial system.

Life after death, including reward and retribution, is wishful thinking, at best. However, if you believe “good” people are rewarded with an afterlife in paradise, while “bad” people are punished for eternity in the burning fires of hell… well, then you’ll have to define “good” versus “bad.”

According to most religions, those who don’t believe what they believe are “bad” and go to hell. Whereas true believers—including the Josef Fritzl’s of the world—are “good,” and go to heaven.

Christianity promises Josef Fritzl will spend eternity in paradise—regardless of his horrific crimes—as long as he accepts Jesus Christ as his savior. Does that seem fair or logical to you?

And what about suicide bombers? They commit murder in the name of Allah, believing they are sending the infidels to hell, while they will be whisked up to heaven as a reward. There’s nothing fair or logical about that either.

Jen, on June 23rd, 2008 at 3:16 am Said:
Hi Charlie,
There are two main reasons I don’t believe in heaven or hell:

1) As Anita said, how do you measure “good” and “bad”? Aren’t we all a little of both? Is there a measuring scale when we die to say of we’re tipped the “bad” side, so off we go, sliding down to eternity in hell… even our flawed human criminal system isn’t so back and white! Is God is so perfect, why would we label all people in such a simplistic way?

2) The idea of heaven and hell, in my view, was invented to satisfy our natural human desire for justice and fairness. As you said, how is it fair or logical that Fritzl doesn’t go to hell to pay for his monstrous sins? It really doesn’t seem fair, does it ? the fact that he’s an old man and hasn’t got long to live… the solution? We make up a story that suits our sense of justice! As a bonus, it’s done a great job at scaring gullible souls into following “God’s rules”.

tolitz, on June 24th, 2008 at 9:56 am Said:
Greetings Jen and Anita!

You believed in your own reasons about the non-existence of God and Heaven & Hell.

Jesus, a human, told us less than a hundred times in the Bible, about His Father, about Heaven and Hell.

He will be the greatest liar if I follow your reasoning.

Unsolicited advice: “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?”Mark 8:36

Love,
Tolitz

Anita, on June 24th, 2008 at 11:19 am Said:
Thanks for your comments, Tolitz.

I’m not sure you realize that Jesus (who was supposedly not human, but the “son of god” or “god” himself, in human form) didn’t write a single word of the Bible.

All statements attributed to him (if he even existed) were written many years after his death.

Also, quoting from the Bible to support the existence of God, heaven and hell, is akin to quoting from Grimm’s Fairy Tales to support the existence of fairies.

Smithy, on June 25th, 2008 at 12:21 am Said:
What an excellent statement Anita!
In fact, I’d prefer to believe in fairies, rather than anything else because they’re (usually) such a positive influence! And I can choose to attribute whatever I like to them!
… oh no, I can hear the troops rallying to barrack about the wicked ones…

tolitz, on June 25th, 2008 at 1:24 am Said:
to all of you who don’t believe,

can truth be relative? you’re making it so.
can anybody just select which one to be the truth? you’re doing it.

most of the time, most of people, choose one “truth” because it services to his or her intention and/or liking, just like that.
no effort, no sacrifice, just like that.

an athlete has to practice (and sacrifice something) for him to be glorious.

he doesn’t choose the easy sedentary way to hone his talent. effort and sacrifice are needed.

fairies of the G brothers and of disney are man-made to entertain not to teach what is truth.

there’s only one truth… and that is the Word of the Creator Almighty.

hope you listen.

thanks to all of you, especially to you anita.

Sue, on June 25th, 2008 at 2:11 pm Said:
Dear Toltz,

‘Can truth be relative?’ That question seems illogical. What one believes to be true may be relative. And different people may believe different things. Truth is a fact… ‘defined as something that is true, something that actually exists, or something that can be verified according to an established standard of evaluation’. (Wikipedia, comes in handy!).

‘Can anybody just select which one to be the truth?’ Well of course not. It either is or it isn’t. But what we know to be true and what we know to be false are proven such. For instance we now know that the earth rotates around the sun and not the other way around, as was once the common belief.

People don’t choose ‘one truth’ because it suits them. They believe something or don’t because it suits them. For instance many people believe that God exist. Perhaps because that belief has been passed down from family to family (and suited them just fine).

Great theologians and philosophers have been arguing the existence of God for what seems a millennium. There is no proof of his existence based on the ‘established standards of evaluation’. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist I suppose. But the onus is really on the believers to prove that he exists.

‘…fairies of the G brothers and of Disney are man-made to entertain not to teach what is truth.’ The bible also is man-made and I’ve heard quite entertaining. But the truth? Doesn’t seem plausible to me that there’s much in the way of truth there.

‘…there’s only one truth… and that is the Word of the Creator Almighty.’ Dear Toltz. Just because someone says it’s so doesn’t make it so.

I applaud your faith and I know you find comfort in that belief. But there are many good, self-sacrificing, hard-working, honourable, giving, loving people in this world that don’t hold your views, don’t believe that God exists and don’t believe that Jesus Christ was anything but a man. And I’d even hazard a guess that most of us would agree that he wasn’t a liar either but a man troubled with any of a number of medical conditions.

I’m an atheist. I’m told I do a disservice to say otherwise even though I do believe that there is more to life then this lovely life we have on this planet called Earth. I believe many atheists are much like me. …looking for spiritual answers. But I think the truth is bigger than God or Jesus. It isn’t in the omniscient realm. Or in the blind faith realm. But in the measurable realm…someday.

Listening,

Sue

tolitz, on June 26th, 2008 at 4:50 pm Said:
dear sue,

you;re an atheist looking for spiritual answers.
you think that truth is bigger than God. (by the way, Jesus was never God or one of its “divine person”).

you’re looking for your answer in the measurable realm.

how can that be?

you will never find it there… forever, but you will in the unquantifiable spiritual realm.

seek and you will find
knock and it will opened for you

thanks for listening
love and compassion

Sue, on June 27th, 2008 at 8:25 am Said:
Tolz,

Rhetoric doesn’t convince anyone of anything.

I could as easily spew the exact words back.

By the way St Nick was never God or one of his “divine persons”.

I will however accept the love. Compassion I have no need of at the moment. But thank you!

tolitz, on June 28th, 2008 at 9:16 pm Said:
dear sue

there was never a rhetoric in my message. just my piece of truth.

plain answers from me.

thanks anyway

Anita, on June 29th, 2008 at 5:27 pm Said:
“People of faith are people devoid of the power to reason, to objectively look at their beliefs and accept criticism, evidence and the opinions of others. It doesn’t matter if it’s a crystal skull or a collection of old stories in a religious book, someone out there will believe whatever they want to believe, even if you produce a mountain of evidence proving that the things into which they put their faith have no basis in fact and can often be proven to be unquestionably false.” –Nick Gisburne

Anita, on June 29th, 2008 at 5:50 pm Said:
Tolitz,

In one comment you said: “Jesus was never God or one of its ‘divine person’.”

In a previous comment you said: “Jesus, a human, told us less than a hundred times in the Bible, about His Father, about Heaven and Hell. He will be the greatest liar if I follow your reasoning.”

You also quoted from the Bible (Mark 8:36).

So… if I’m to understand you correctly, you don’t believe Jesus was the son of God, but you do believe in his teachings about “his father,” which would imply that he is the son of God.

And since you’ve quoted from the Bible, I’ll assume you believe it’s the “word of God.”

How do you reconcile these conflicts in your belief system?

Tito Tinajero, on July 1st, 2008 at 2:08 pm Said:
It is interesting to see most of your quotes were from the nineeth and early twentieth century, when the model of religionous formation was thought to be the explaination theory. Religion arises as a way of explaining the unknown or out of fear of the unknown. The work of Andrew B. Newberg and others has opened the possiblity that we humans maybe wired for religion. Now I am not saying that his work proves the existence of God, the wiring may simply be the accedent of evolution, but it does seriously challenges the enlightment myth about Religions origin and has to be part of the dialog (Or shouting match). The seond point is the underlining assumption of the quotes about Religion as the cause of man’s ills. Unfortunatly, the last century has disproved that notion. Many that abandoned their faith did not abandon the way of murder and violence. Even in the quotes and the peoples comments, we can see how much hate movitates us. The question remains of how to build a bridge to communication and dialog.